E&OE TRANSCRIPT
ABC RADIO SYDNEY
MONDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2025
SUBJECT: RECOGNITION OF A PALESTINIAN STATE, MEETING WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, HOME CARE COPAYMENTS
HAMISH MACDONALD, HOST: Sam Maiden is here from news.com.au for Monday morning, and Susan Templeman, the Labor MP from Macquarie. Good morning to you both.
SAMANTHA MAIDEN, POLITICAL EDITOR FOR NEWS.COM.AU: Good morning.
SUSAN TEMPLEMAN, FEDERAL MEMBER FOR MACQUARIE: Good morning.
MACDONALD: So, the Prime Minister in New York, declaring that Australia recognizes Palestinian statehood. This is the prime minister earlier.
[AUDIO GRAB STARTS]
I think the real turning point in this debate in recent times has been the decision of the Arab League to declare that Hamas can play no role in a future Palestinian state to call for its disarmament and disbandment and to also recognize that Israel has a right to continue to exist in security as well.
[AUDIO GRAB ENDS]
MACDONALD: That's the Prime Minister speaking to News Breakfast. Susan Templeman, what difference, if any, does this decision make?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, this is such a long overdue step from my perspective that recognizes that seventy years ago, the world said there should be two states. So, it's important in that way. But what it's also indicating is a much greater collaboration and cooperation around the world, to really send a message to Israel that that what is happening is catastrophic and appalling, and, you know, all of us are looking for every single lever that we have to demonstrate that there's time for a change. And so, I think the fact that we've done this with Canada and the UK, and other countries will, this week, similarly recognize Palestine is it will also give heart to Palestinians. I have friends in Palestine, and that recognition has been something they have wanted for a really long time. So, it isn't everything, but it isn't nothing. It's a very significant step as we try and get peace in The Middle East.
MACDONALD: Sam Maiden, there has been very few vocal supporters of this move because those that wanted this say it happened too late, and, the government's done too little, you know, in terms of other measures. Those that were always opposed say this is a dangerous move. Does the government now have a job ahead of it to try and sell this domestically, or is it now just done?
MAIDEN: Look. I do not think we should underestimate how, long it has taken to get to get to this point. It was only a couple of months ago that this was a highly contentious position. let's not forget that there were people, including Fatima Payman, who have left the party. There are people like Ed Husic who have left the cabinet over this issue. So, it has been an extremely vexed issue. It's always going to be domestically complex to and challenging to basically hold this discussion because, as you said, people hold such divergent views on it. And, clearly, the coalition is making it clear that they do not support this, and they have suggested that it is reckless and dangerous. But I think that for internally, this is a position that the Labor Party had to get through get to given that its base holds views that are probably to the to the left of the party on this issue. And so not easy, not settled in the sense that it'll no doubt continue to have some degree of controversy. The Prime Minister being asked today on breakfast television, how on earth he can guarantee, for example, that Hamas won't play a role, in the future administration of Palestine. But, clearly, a lot of, you know, ground has been made in the recent weeks.
MACDONALD: Susan Templeman, how does the government guarantee that, almost impossible I would have thought.
TEMPLEMAN: Well, let's talk about how the world holds the Palestinian Authority through account in terms of its part of the agreement that it's made because the this is progress based on commitments by the Palestinian Authority. That's the reality of what will happen, and this is
MACDONALD: But, I mean, but if they do if they do go to hold Palestinian elections and these figures, whether they are running under a banner of Hamas or not, might stand a pretty good chance of getting elected, might they?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, these are the issues that will determine how smoothly, the next steps play out. I mean, it's not just about holding general elections. And Australia said we are going to have a role with Indonesia in helping to reform the schooling system. So, there are roles that we will play, and there are things that, as a collective, we will do. The Arab League is crucial here in in being part of this moving forward. I mean, no one's suggesting this is going to be, you know, laid down as they're done and dusted. It's always going to be hard, but this is a step that, as I co-chair the parliamentary friends of Palestine, and I'm part of the many Labor MPs, including Ed, who I should just say didn't leave cabinet about it, but he's able to speak a lot more freely on it currently. And we want to see Australia play whatever role we can in furthering peace. And I'm so pleased that we can now say something we've argued for. And can I just point out; the opposition was supportive of a two-state solution until recently? You know, it's the opposition that's walked away from bipartisanship on this. So, this is a really significant step forward in a whole lot of ways, but there is much more to do.
MACDONALD: Susan Templeman is here, the Labor MP for Macquarie, Sam Maiden from news.com.au. Here's the Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu hitting out against Australia, The UK, and Canada saying it's a reward for terrorism.
[AUDIO GRAB]
NETANYAHU: And I have another message for you. It will not happen. A Palestinian state will not be established West of the Jordan River. For years, I have prevented the establishment of this terrorist state despite tremendous pressure both domestically and internationally.
[AUDIO GRAB ENDS]
MACDONALD: That's Benjamin Netanyahu speaking there earlier in a video posted to his social media. There's obviously we've talked about the domestic, dimension of this. There's the sort of global picture Sam Maiden, and the question as well is of whether or not our prime minister might be able to get a meeting with Donald Trump while he's there in America. How likely is this looking?
MAIDEN: Well, I think that it is one of those situations, Hamish, where you would resort to phraseology, no guarantees. Look. It's interesting, I think, that Chris Bowen, the labor front bench, has sort of said the quiet part out loud on insiders over the weekend where he suggested that people that have gotten meetings, with Donald Trump, they haven't always worked out the way that they may have wanted. So, there's almost this sense that the government is not scared to meet with Donald Trump but is not exactly relaxed about it either. So, they're in a real bind. They have to have this meeting. It's been three hundred plus days, whatever it is, since he returned to the White House. It doesn't look great that we haven't had a meeting, but there are dangers attached to having one. So, obviously, there is a hope that after the long period of coverage of the failure to get the meeting, eventually, we got the phone call. Now, there's this hope that there's some sort of meet and greet, but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion of any really long formal meeting with a press conference afterwards. It's not going to be like when Donald Trump visited The United Kingdom over the last week and was duchess by royalty. You know, it's still a very difficult situation, but the government does continually refer to the fact that we have, you know, some of the lowest tariffs in the world.
MACDONALD: Is there a particular matter of substance that the prime minister needs sit down and talk to Donald Trump about, Sam? Like, is there something on the agenda that they can't?
MAIDEN: There are two issues. Right? I mean, one issue is obviously tariffs, and there may be a sense there that we're doing okay about that. We don't want to rock the boat too much. The other issue is obviously AUKUS. And, you know, we've been absolutely shoveling money in that direction. But, you know, there's been a bit of a sense that we didn't necessarily want to poke the bear while that review into AUKUS was going on. There's subsequently been other noises coming out of the White House administration. We don't need to worry, presumably if we keep shoveling money in their direction. But, you know, there's all sorts of questions around defence. The US obviously wants Australia to also up its defence expenditure. So, you know, basically, there are many issues no doubt to talk about, but chief amongst them are trade tariffs and AUKUS.
MACDONALD: Susan Templeman, do you think the prime minister does need to show that he can at least get a face-to-face meeting with Donald Trump? It does matter, doesn't it?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, I think it'd be great for that to happen, but I think we've had you know, gone are the days when phone conversations and weren't a good alternative. We've had four conversations. The prime ministers had four conversations with the president, detailed and meaty conversations. But I think what's more important is that, you know, in terms of the urgency of it, I can't see anything that means if we don't have a meeting tomorrow, you know, the world is going to end. This is something that will happen in due course. I think we are getting very focused on it because it hasn't happened yet, and I understand that. But it will happen in due course. And quite frankly, we're having terrific engagement at many levels with The United States around a whole range of issues, and the prime minister's visit to New York will hopefully open an opportunity for a bit of a face to face at some stage.
MACDONALD: It's twenty-three minutes past nine. Liz Ellis coming up in just a moment. We're going to talk about netball possibly at the Brisbane Olympics. Sam Maiden is here from news.com.au. Susan Templeman, labor MP from Macquarie. We've been talking about home care co-payments this morning. The ABC investigations team has a report tonight on 07:30 about this. Susan Templeman, can you make the case as to why pensioners, full pensioners, should be paying any percentage of a service that's being delivered to them in their home, which would keep them out of a nursing home?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, I'm following this with a great deal of interest. It is important that pensioners and self-funded retirees who get part pensions are not put in any hardship because of the changes to the system, and there'll certainly be much lower contributions for pensioners than Commonwealth Seniors Health Card holders. I think what's also been -
MACDONALD: can't you envisage a scenario where a pensioner says, look. I'm going to skip getting the service that helps me have a shower because this is going to cost me 5 or $10 or $20, whatever the amount turns out to be, And that maybe that then lands them in hospital, which is going to be just more costly for the system ultimately anyway.
TEMPLEMAN: Well, I would certainly be concerned to see that, but we are working through the new arrangements, and the government will be the primary funder of those home care arrangements under supported homes. It's something like for every dollar a person contributes; the government will be contributing $8. So, it will still be very much a government-funded scheme with some additional payments, but I do think we need to look closely at it.
MACDONALD: Like, are you are you are you saying you want to tweak this if that's where it landed? Like, obviously, the ABC's had difficulty getting answers from the new aged care minister, Sam Rae. We've heard from him a couple of times on this program. This seems like a very new minister that's facing a lot of pressure around the rollout of this new system.
TEMPLEMAN: Well, it's a system that doesn't kick in till November. So, we do need to see how the arrangements are being worked through. You know, I am one of many of my constituents who have an aging parent who requires either in home support or will shortly move into the aged care system. So, I'm living this along with many of my constituents, and we'll be following very closely. But I do know that we have to just wait and see how it pans out.
MACDONALD: Sam, is that a satisfactory answer, do you think, for the well, millions of Australian families that are actually going through this at the at the moment?
MAIDEN: Look. I think it's really tough, but I also think as a society, we have to be realistic about how much we are prepared to pay for these services. Right? You know, obviously, families do a huge amount of heavy lifting in this space, but, obviously, there is only so much money available. Are we going to fund, as a society, a personal carer to go into the homes of every aged person and help them shower once a day? Okay. If we want to pay for that, we want to pay for that. But there are implications for that. And I think that, you know, I just think that we need to be realistic. I think that we we've gotten to this point where if you want to change anything in this space, if you want to talk about people, you know, living in in homes that that have a high value and finding some way to, you know, get them to pay some of the costs of their care, people kind of really lose it. And I think that's a problem. I understand there's this sense that people say, oh, people have drunk the Kool Aid. They think that all retirees are wealthy, and they're not. And that is absolutely true, but there are people, I think, who can make a greater contribution to their care than they are currently. And there are people who just can't afford it either, and we've got to find the right balance, I think, in relation to that.
MACDONALD: Sam Maiden, Susan Templeman, thank you very much.
TEMPLEMAN: Thank you.
MAIDEN: Thank you.
ENDS
