E&OE TRANSCRIPT ABC SYDNEY DRIVE
RADIO INTERVIEW
MONDAY, 14 JULY 2025
SUBJECT: Prime Ministerial Visit to China, Trump Administration, AUKUS, Treasury, Arts in Sydney
TONI MATTHEWS, HOST: It’s time now for the Monday Political Forum, I have Susan Templeman, the Federal Labor MP for Macquarie.
SUSAN TEMPLEMAN, FEDERAL MEMBER FOR MACQAURIE: Hello. Great to be with you.
MATTHEWS: Margy Osmond, the CEO of the Tourism and Transport Forum Australia.
MARGY OSMOND: Howdy.
MATTHEWS: Nice moves. And on the line, Michael Regan, the State Independent MP for Wakehurst. Thank you for joining me on drive.
MICHAEL REGAN MP: Good afternoon, everyone.
MATTHEWS: Starting overseas, the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s six-day trip to China is being complicated by questions about what Australia would do in the event of a war between China and the US over Taiwan, and it’s been revealed that Trump Administration officials have been pressuring Canberra for assurances Australia would join any conflict. Susan, what do you think Anthony Albanese’s advisers are saying to him at the moment?
TEMPLEMAN: I think they're going to be saying to him, stick to what you’re talking about there in China, because he’s doing some incredibly important discussions there. We had tourism yesterday -
OSMOND: The most important topic.
TEMPLEMAN: That’s right, strengthening the relationship there, and today of course a lot around our mining and renewables sectors, and you know, obviously he’s not going to be able to control what anyone asks him, but what he can do is really stick with the plan, which is going to be a serious discussion with China. And I think it’s pretty understandable. On the first day of the visit there was tourism but there were also all those other questions that are coming, today I’ve heard the Prime Minister speaking, and he is very focused on the business at hand so my advice always, just stick with the plan.
MATTHEWS: Stick with the plan. Margy Osmond, do you think the Prime Minister would be worried about this pressure from the US Administration, or is this normal politicking?
OSMOND: Oh look, I think it would be a big mistake to suggest that being Prime Minister is anything but a tough gig.
MATTHEWS: I agree.
OSMOND: But I do think that if, you know I was in the room giving advice it would pretty much look like, I think, what we’re hearing publicly anyway, which is we don’t deal in hypotheticals and any decision in that space would be an issue for the government of the day. And I think that’s probably the best way to deal with this. You know, stay calm and carry on. You know, I think Susan is absolutely right, he has a reason for being in China at the moment and as much as we all love journalists of course, you can be asked a question but that is not necessarily the main reason for having a conversation about it.
I think the Prime Minister is quite rightly focusing on tourism while he is there and is doing a terrific job. I mean, Australia has an amazing background linkage with China, which was being maintained all through those difficult years with COVID, and how could you not love being away on a delegation to China with Ruby the Roo?
MATTHEWS: Oh, we did have Brett Worthington say Ruby the Roo looks a bit like a chicken.
OSMOND: Oh, rubbish. Ruby the Roo is gorgeous. I love her
TEMPLEMAN: I disagree; I just don't get chicken legs at all.
OSMOND: Nah, She’s a winner. They love her everywhere.
MATTHEWS: I think I need to take a closer look. Michael Regan, jump in. What did you think when you heard the news today?
REGAN: Oh about... was that Trump?
MATTHEWS: The Trump administration officials putting pressure on Canberra.
REGAN: Really simply, I think it’s just that Trump is predictably unpredictable. So, you can't really, do you worry about it? Kinda. But can you change it? No. Do you stress about it? Not really. You’ve just got to get on with doing what you’re doing, I think he’s doing a good job at managing that line, as was being pointed out by your two previous speakers, but his advisers are probably saying ‘you wanted this job as Prime Minister, get on with it. Good luck brother.’ So yeah, I’m just glad I’m in state politics and not federal politics, Thats all I can say.
MATTHEWS: Have you seen Ruby the Roo, by the way?
REGAN: No, I haven’t. I was laughing at that chicken comment.
MATTHEWS: That was Brett Worthington, not me. I haven’t seen Ruby the Roo either.
OSMOND: Listen, I have photographs of me with Ruby the Roo, she hasn’t got chicken legs, She’s a wonder!
MATTHEWS: In some regards, that can be a compliment.
Susan, are you worried that this pressure from the US may have implications on the trilateral AUKUS security agreement?
TEMPLEMAN: I think there’s a mix in how we’re thinking about AUKUS. AUKUS is about hardware. It’s about submarines. It’s about developing collectively other technologies. What actually guides our relationship is the ANZUS Treaty with the US that underpins it, and that requires that there be discussions about things. So, I think this is getting wound up into something that it's not, so we have an agreement to work on submarines and then other sophisticated technology but underpinning it all is the ANZUS treaty. You know, and our relationship goes back hundreds of years to the US and that basis of it. I feel like this is a bit of a storm in a teacup and let’s just focus on what we’ve got.
We will never give up sovereignty. That underpins the agreements that we have globally, and we will decide in time, at the appropriate time. You know there are also a lot of us in Parliament who say, well, could we not even have greater scrutiny by thinking about what role does Parliament have in making decisions about war? So, all these things are really interesting, but they’re a long way off, and someone might want us to be talking about them, but there's not really any relevance to it right now.
MATTHEWS: You must have been talking about it though when you saw the headlines.
TEMPLEMAN: It’s an issue that I’ve thought about a lot. I was on the Defence Subcommittee in Parliament for the last term of government, and one of the inquiries we did was into war powers, and what is the best way for a parliament to have engagement in it, and we wrote a report and that report was presented to the government. So, it’s an issue I’m really interested in as a ‘what is our overall approach’ but just be practical. We’ve got the ANZUS treaty with the US and that determines the processes that we use in the future and in any conflicts. I just think we are conflating AUKUS. It’s about hardware. It really is ‘get some technology and let’s work’. And let's remember, it’s got the UK in it as well. This is a tripartite business deal, really.
MATTHEWS: Margy, what were you saying?
OSMOND: Oh, I was just going to say I mean the UK have done quite a recent review of the AUKUS relationship and came out very solid on the exercise, so I'm with Susan on this one, absolutely. Let’s focus on the reality of what this is about and the need for us to be having constructive conversations with all of our allies.
MATTHEWS: On another issue today, a senior minister is defending the government’s transparency after receiving advice it will fail to meet its target of 1.2 million new homes in the next five years. The details come from a table of contents accidentally shared with the ABC following a Freedom of Information Request. It also reveals Treasury has advised the government can’t make the budget sustainable without raising taxes and cutting spending. Michael Regan, you’re the Independent Member for Wakehurst, housing is a national problem, including in your area. Would you like to see more transparency?
REGAN: This is a difficult one because, yes, you want to see more transparency, but at the right levels. What we’re already seeing today from this one thing that got released is that it’s being weaponised immediately and everyone’s going to take a different angle about it, because the thing is you want your full and fearless advice from your bureaucracy, you want that. You want to be as an elected leader, to be able to challenge that, have conversations, play devil's advocate, propose different, alternative pathways. But as soon as you do that in a public way, or if it’s laid out in the public, then you can get criticised from different areas and it becomes weaponised and used against you and held up and stored to be used at a later time against you. So, I’m not sure what the answer is here because I’m passionate about trying to do something about that, and move the housing debate forward, but today we're just seeing how it’s all playing out and we’re hearing already the different weaponisations of it. So tricky and I don't necessarily have the right answer to this because there’s got to be an agreement where we can work together and have this sort of stuff out there and debated accordingly.
MATTHEWS: The Independent economist Chris Richardson says Treasury’s job is to deliver hard truths to policymakers. Susan Templeman, the Shadow Treasurer has criticised the government for not revealing the Treasury advice that it wouldn’t meet its signature housing pledge. Do the taxpayers have the right to know what that advice is, or should it be private information for the government only? If so, why?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, I don’t recall any previous Liberal-Coalition government releasing any of this advice, so they didn’t really set a precedent for it to be released. I think public servants need to be able to speak fearlessly and frankly, and that involves having some privacy around the comments they make, and in fact there are a whole lot of circumstances where you can have – It might be a meeting where you don’t necessarily release a transcript of the entire conversation that happened in that meeting with the minister because you want a fearless and frank discussion from an external person, you know, a business person, tourism person or public servant so you know, you do need to have a place and this is a longstanding protocol that this advice is presented and given.
I think you saw the reaction from the Treasurer, he’s pretty relaxed that a list of subheadings got released. They are all things that we’ve been talking about in the couple of months since we won the election, all the things where we know we’ve got to do better, and Michael is right. Housing is something that we all want to see us meet the targets. We are very proud to say we’ve set ambitious targets, and now our job is to keep working on how we achieve them.
MATTHEWS: Margy Osmond?
OSMOND: Oh look, I think part of the issue with this is that you can’t expect a good government if you’re not going to get tough advice and that’s essentially what’s happened here. I think this is, A moment of change too in some ways in the housing debate, because I think increasingly now there's an attitude of collegiality between state and federal governments to figure out how they might be able to do this better at this point in time. So, you know if it’s something that stimulates a bit more conversation about how we get it better and how we get the most out of this situation for, after all, the most important people in this space, the Australian people, less politics, more outcome. I think it’d be a good move.
MATTHEWS: It’s twelve minutes to six here on 702 ABC Radio Sydney Drive. You’re listening to the Monday Political Forum with Susan Templeman, The Federal Labor Member for Macquarie, Michael Regan, the State Independent MP for Wakehurst and Margy Osmond, the CEO of the Tourism and Transport Forum Australia. Have you heard about the ruckus in Paddington over the puppet show? You have, if you’re listening, and you haven’t, the row centres on plans to stage a puppet performance at Paddington Reserve Gardens as part of the Sydney Art and About Festival. It’s also part of efforts to raise awareness about climate change. But some local residents are up in arms over the prospect of noise, light pollution and the potential for young people to misbehave. Some are even suggesting it will invite crime into the neighbourhood. The Arts Minister, John Graham says common sense would suggest a puppet show for children should be able to be held successfully while keeping audiences and neighbours happy. Well, my question to you, would you all be happy to stage an event like this? Michael Regan?
REGAN: One hundred percent. I’m all over it. Let’s do it, let’s bring it on. Let’s bring it somewhere in Dee Why, maybe down to the Long Reef perhaps.
MATTHEWS: We're moving it to the beaches.
REGAN: We’re moving it to the beaches. Done. I did try and get the Sculptured by the Sea at the beaches when I knew they were trying to pull out of Bondi, I got close, but yeah, I’d have it in a heartbeat. I’ll just say this one thing about neighbours and objections, as a Mayor I got exposed to a lot of these types of things, barking dogs, road noise repairs and whatever it is, but the funniest one was one just because a neighbour was putting in a pool and she was upset that she was going to hear kids playing and laughing in the pool. And they were objecting to that, and I just went wow.
MATTHEWS: Where’s the Grinch that Stole Christmas? Now we know.
REGAN: There you go. So yeah, I think it’s fantastic and I can’t believe people are objecting to this, but you know, that's the democracy that we live in.
MATTHEWS: Margy Osmond, would you be happy to stage an event like this?
OSMOND: Absolutely, look I mean I live in the eastern suburbs, and I live in one of the most densely populated, everywhere you've got to park or some sort of space, the mood now is to bring some sort of community activity into that space. Now my understanding of this puppet show is that the application has put in a window between five and ten o'clock. well clearly, they won't use all of that time. It’s for kids. It’s not going to go that late, and the venue itself the reservoir gardens are lovely, but there not huge so they’ll have to tailor this performance quite significantly, and I don't know If you've seen Fauna the key puppet but she's gorgeous. I mean it's those long spindly fingers, she's fabulous.
But the other thing to keep in mind with this too is that from a small business point of view, I know amongst the commentary there was a few people complaining about what might happen, but what about all those restaurants and other places there and the convenience stores and all sorts of things that are going to do very well out of people buying some goodies to take with them while watching it with the kids or perhaps go to an early dinner or a dinner afterwards. Look, as I say, I live in Potts Point, Elizabeth Bay, we’re always seeing shows on and things to be done and it’s about the night-time economy, and good on John Graham for coming out and being really honest about it. It's a show for kids; it's not going to be late. I can't see it being noisy and this is part of making Sydney a vibey, fabulous destination.
MATTHEWS: Susan Templeman?
TEMPLEMAN: We would love it in my neck of the woods. I can picture it along the Nepean River in Regatta Park, anywhere through parks in the Mountains and Hawkesbury, and I’ve seen Erth perform, in fact my daughter has performed with them because this is not just a puppet show. This usually involves people with movement, and I’d say they're not just for kids, and actually parents and adults will enjoy it just as much.
OSMOND: But it's lots of audience engagement too, isn't it?
TEMPLEMAN: Absolutely.
OSMOND: Everybody gets into it.
TEMPLEMAN: They’re really quite special performances as the one I saw was through Vivid Sydney a few years ago, so we would love it, I think people who see it would love it, and as Special Envoy for the Arts my job is to advocate for the arts, say to people in the area, just suck it and see, you know. Give it a go, see how it works out, because we really should have the arts in every little nook and cranny of our wonderful city.
MATTHEWS: If approved by the City of Sydney Council, the show will be staged from September 4 to 20, as you said Margy it’s from 5pm to 10pm, so not particularly late. It’s only going to be on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays, and now, you three would also like to have this staged.
OSMOND: Yeah, you bet, and look, I would say this to you too, because I’m in an area where we do see a lot of these styles of performances, the City of Sydney is punctilious about making sure they finish when they're meant to finish, and that they’ve got a crowd strategy for clearing people. There’ll be all sorts of special provisions that’ll go in place to make this a more comfortable event for locals, and what you might find is that while there are obviously some people who aren’t particularly happy, there’ll be lots and lots of locals who’ll love it,
MATTHEWS: I know one point was about toilets, and I’m sure there’ll be plenty of toilets around for people to use.
OSMOND: Can I say, we’ve had events in the past, not in Paddington, but in other places where they haven’t quite had the number they were, you know, they’ve had a lot more people than they were expecting, but the city is really good at predicting this now, and being prepared for it and bringing in the Portaloo's and the parking and the public transport and all sorts of things.
TEMPLEMAN: Yeah but go west!
OSMOND: Of course, go west. Silly me.
MATTHEWS: Go west. It’s seven minutes to six here on 702 ABC Radio Sydney Drive, before I let you three go, earlier on Drive we had the Youth Premier on the show talking about the 2025 Youth Parliament which is sitting this week in Sydney. Eighty-Nine young people and possible future leaders are taking part. As three leaders in the community, did you have ambitions to influence and lead when you were at high school or even primary school? Margy?
OSMOND: Oh, well I actually wanted to be the head of the Defence Forces. That was my thing, I don’t know. It was just because I thought I’d look terrific in uniform. I have no idea, but yes, I was very conscious of that, and I was a very noisy teenager who was quite passionate about what should happen in terms of the Defence of Australia.
MATTHEWS: You followed the rules at school, didn’t you? You were a rule follower?
OSMOND: Oh, not really, no. I was one of the editors of the school magazine. I was a bit of a troublemaker, and I’m delighted to say so.
MATTHEWS: Susan?
TEMPLEMAN: I didn’t think about any of this. You know, I missed the whole student politics thing. I was at UTS, and I was involved in student radio, so that was where I was making a difference and changing the world at 2SERFM, which has been the training ground for many, many ABC people. So, it wasn’t till my forties, and I didn't go into, I never thought about going into it to be a leader. I’ve gone into politics to fix some problems, and for me, the fundamental one started with youth mental health. Trying to get better services for young people, people based on the experience my family had. So, you know, I talk about leadership to kids, and I say, it’s not just about being called a leader, it’s about knowing there’s a problem that you want to fix –
MATTHEWS: You can make a difference.
TEMPLEMAN: And having a bit of a track record in doing that, you know, I think a lot of us are motivated by the same thing that journos are. You want to change the world and make it a better place. Yeah, so I did that as a journo for a while, but not until my mid-forties did, I think that maybe the way to change it is through politics.
MATTHEWS: Michael?
REGAN: So, no ambitions ever.
MATTHEWS: What happened?
REGAN: I know right? What happened? I got kicked out of school in Year 11, but there you go, I was prefect then as well.
MATTHEWS: You were kicked out in Year 11 as the prefect? Collective shocked faces here.
REGAN: Yeah, I got tough on the shoulder. Well, yeah its a funny story but it’s probably too long to tell you, but I got tough on the shoulder, I was at Holroyd High and they said sorry Mr Regan, school is not for you go and get a full time job and we will get you a leaving certificate. I said, that sounds like a good deal, so I did. Fifteen years later I ended up running for council because I just got sick and tired of playing cricket on very ordinary pitches out in the middle of the northern beaches and said ‘I can do a better job than this. I’m going to run for council.’ My mates all said we'll support you and then I accidentally got elected as mayor.
MATTHEWS: So really, it was going to be sport or politics?
REGAN: Correct.
MATTHEWS: Isn’t it interesting where we all come from and our different back roads and how we got here? Thank you so much for coming onto the Monday Political Forum with me this week. Great to have you.
ENDS
