E&OE TRANSCRIPT ABC Sydney Drive with Chris Bath 08/09/2025 – Monday Political Forum

RADIO INTERVIEW

MONDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER 2025
SUBJECTS: Protests at Bondi Beach, The Citizenship Act, Liberal Party Room Unity, NSW Hunting and Gun Laws

CHRIS BATH, ABC SYDNEY DRIVE: The Monday political forum and joining me today, Susan Templeman and Julian Leeser and Margy Osmond. Great to have you with us.

MARGY OSMOND, CEO OF THE TOURISM AND TRANSPORT FORUM AUSTRALIA: Howdy.

SUSAN TEMPLEMAN, FEDERAL MEMBER FOR MACQUARIE: G’day

JULIAN LEESER, FEDERAL MEMBER FOR BEROWRA: Hi. how's it going?

BATH: Lovely. Thank you. We've got Julian, the member for Berowra on the blower. We've got Susan Templeman also on the blower, the Member for Macquarie, and Margy Osmond, the CEO of the Tourism and Transport Forum, is here with me in the studio.

OSMOND: In the flesh.

BATH: In the flesh. Such is the tyranny of distance these days. Now I thought we might kick off with the protest at Bondi Beach yesterday. Tempers flared among some people. This was meant to be a peaceful paddle out organised by the group Jews Against the Occupation of Gaza, some of whom say they are Eastern Suburbs locals. A pro-Israel Jewish group also staged a counter protest. The pro-Israel supporters shouted, we don't come to Lakemba, so don't come to Bondi at the pro-Palestinian paddlers and call them inbred and terrorists. The pro Palestine contingent chanted Israel is a terrorist state. It was a bit of a slanging match. Police say it was mostly peaceful, though. Some scuffles did erupt. A few punches were thrown. My question is, is it deliberate provocation style stage a protest in an area with a big Jewish population, population, or is Bondi just another public space that could be utilised by anyone? Julian Leeser, let's start with you.

LEESER: Well, look, I'm a long time on the public record on this issue. Back to the period just after October 7 where there was going to be those convoys of people driving through the Eastern Suburbs, people have the right to protest to change the foreign policy of the country. But this is not an appropriate thing to occur in the suburbs. It's an appropriate thing to occur where government officials are, and that means in the cities around government buildings. I I just think we want to keep these issues out of the suburbs. You know, it's wrong for people to protest in areas with high Jewish populations. Just as it would be wrong for people to protest in areas with high Muslim populations. I think it's much better if people make these points to the people who are most likely to change the foreign policy, and that is government officials outside government buildings in the city.

BATH: Susan Templeman, should protest stay in the CBD?

TEMPLEMAN: Oh, I don't think protest should stay in the CBD. There would never be a protest outside my office in the Blue Mountains or Windsor if that was the case. But I do take Julian's point about, you know, who are you trying to influence? And I have to say, I think Australians should be able to travel anywhere within our country and particularly within Sydney. Sydney siders should be able travel anywhere they like. But they should also people who are there should feel safe. You know, there is just no reason to be creating fear no matter where it is, and I should be able to walk safely anywhere as should you irrespective of our religion or our colour or anything else. So, I think it's really coming down to - how about we focus on respecting each other? By all means, have the freedom to do things in various places, but do it in a peaceful, respectful way. We just don't want to see this hatred or this violence being brought to our country any more than it already has been. There has been far too much of it.

BATH: Margy Osmond, as the CEO of the Tourism and Transport Forum, you'd have a view on this. Bondi Beach is emblematic of Australia, especially overseas.

OSMOND: And I think that's actually the issue and why it was chosen, not necessarily for it to be a divisive issue given, you know, the Jewish population of the Eastern Suburbs. I think it's much more to do with the same reason why so many people want to have a demonstration on the Harbour Bridge. You have a demonstration on Bondi Beach. Those pictures go around the world and get massively more coverage than they would in other circumstances. I think it's extremely unfortunate that what we saw was something that perhaps wasn't as peaceful as it could or should have been. We're a democracy demonstrating against things you do or don't believe in or choose to support is part of our right as citizens regardless of what the topic is. But I do think that this was a slightly cynical pick of a destination to do it at because what they were interested in was the media outcome and the pictures.

BATH: You're listening to the Monday political forum. With me today, Margy Osmond, the CEO of the Tourism and Transport Forum Australia. Julian Leeser, the Federal Member for Berowra, and Susan Templeman, the Federal Member for Macquarie. I wanted to touch on this. More than a 130,000 people over the past week last count, more than a 133,000 as of today have signed a petition demanding the deportation of dual Australian New Zealand citizen, the neo–Nazi Thomas Sewell. The petitions organizer says this particular campaign also wants to amend the Australian Citizenship Act to ensure people convicted of serious hate crimes can be stripped of citizenship and deported under judicial oversight. We have a lot of talk at the moment about social cohesion in Australia. A lot of people worried that it is breaking down. Is it time to reexamine the Citizenship Act to protect communities rather than extremists? Susan Templeman?

TEMPLEMAN: Well, I can certainly understand why people are asking the question, but we already have we do have a regime for removing citizenship from people, but the bar is extremely high. It's for treason or terrorism right now, and it's set by the High Court. So, there is already a mechanism for that. I mean, look. I attend citizenship ceremonies very often, and I love to hear people recognise is that they have rights as a citizen, but they also have responsibilities. And that, I think we have a pretty tough regime where people will break the laws. Now I don't want to talk about an individual given there's a court process underway, but, you know, you become a citizen. You are subject, like any visitor or resident, to our laws and the consequences for that behaviour. And that's what I think people probably need to focus on here rather than trying to create a new pathway. Let's see how this is dealt with through the legal system that we have and every citizen. When they when they take their oath and they acknowledge their rights and responsibilities, it's a beautiful thing. And I don't want to let one bad person somehow push a shadow of doubt over the majority of new citizens who are here to do the very best for our country that they can.

BATH: Margy Osmond, should we be taking a look at this?

OSMOND: Look. I have to say I'm in furious agreement with Susan on this one. Whether you're a new citizen or whether you're lucky enough to have been born an Australian, and there are responsibilities that come with it. But as part of that also, we have laws to deal with inappropriate behaviour across the board from, you know, terrorism through to what we're discussing here now. And I think we have to let those laws play out. I would say I'd be somewhat more than somewhat concerned about a capacity to change that citizen act to just make it possible to strip a person of their citizenship at a much lower bar. I think it's taken quite seriously by governments of all political description in this day and age. I think there is enough. It's good to talk about it, but and put a bit more focus on what is appropriate and, you know, the right behaviour as an Australian citizen. But I'm unconvinced on the changing of the citizenship laws.

BATH: Julian Leeser, are serious hate crimes enough to lower the bar?

LEESER: Yes. I think they are. And indeed, when these matters came up for consideration after the Benbrika case when mister Benbrika, who had been a convicted terrorist and was a dual citizen, was to have his citizenship stripped, the High Court said that couldn't be done other than with judicial oversight, and the law was changed. You know, it was limited only really to treason and serious terror offenses. We put forward some amendments saying that it should include things like serious hate crimes. And I think the fact that a 130,000 people in a week have signed this petition demonstrate the revulsion that Australians have with what is happening in our streets where we're seeing too often neo Nazi marches in in in the streets of Melbourne, where we're seeing, you know, that dreadful situation in Victoria last week where we saw a group of neo Nazis setting upon a group of Indigenous people in a particular protest site that they had there. This is not the Australia that I've grown up in. It's not the Australia we know and love. And I think the level of hate crime that's been going on in the last few years is wrong. It's part of the reason why we moved a series of amendments before the election to get the government to provide mandatory minimum sentences for hate crimes and terrorist offences, which they ultimately agreed to. But I think we should take this additional step because Australian citizenship, as both Susan and Margy said, is such a great prize. And those people who want to operate outside the citizenship regime, who are dual citizens, should forfeit their citizenship.

BATH: You're listening to the Monday Political Forum here on 702 ABC Radio Sydney. With me today is Susan Templeman, Julian Leeser, and Margy Osmond. Switch focus now to Liberal Party Room Unity in Canberra. Margy's laughing already. Sorry, Julian. I’m sorry. Is that a contradiction in terms? Look. There's a bit to this but let me just unpack it for people who who aren't across it. Last week, Northern Territory Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price claimed Labor is deliberately targeting, Indian migrants, bringing them to Australia, basically, to stack votes. The opposition leader, Sussan Ley, has pretty much been in damage control ever since. And now it seems the opposition's manager of business in the house, Alex Hawke, made a phone call to presumably bring Senator Price into line. But now the senator claims mister Hawke berated his staff, saying on social media yesterday, if people want to talk about a so-called woman problem in the Liberal Party, then it's this. We don't stand up for women when they are mistreated by our own colleagues. Susan and Julian, particularly, as politicians in a major party, can I ask you what usually happens when you get asked to toe the party line? Julian?

LEESER: I have to say, never actually had anybody ask me to toe the party line.

BATH: Well, that means you've been a good boy, Julian.

LEESER: Well, no. It doesn't. It means I've spoken up on different things from time to time.
But we in the Liberal Party have an idea that we like to respect the conscience of the individual, and people are allowed to say their own things. But I think in this particular instance, you know, what Jacinta Price has said and the way it was heard was damaging, and that's why she's walked these things back. That's why Sussan Ley has called it wrong, and that's why she said it won't happen again. I'm very sorry to the Indian community that this has occurred and that they've been offended by this. And I just want to say, as the Federal Member for Berowra and as somebody who's chaired the Parliamentary Friends of India the entire time I've been in the parliament, I want to reaffirm my support for our wonderful Indian community, which makes a contribution in every imaginable way in my own community and right across the country to community organisations from the RFS to the SES to school P&Cs to sporting organisations and rotary clubs. And you'll see Indian Australians now in every imaginable sphere of Australian life, from sports teams to CEOs to the people who are new migrants coming and filling jobs in country areas. Their contribution is fantastic. We should celebrate them and be proud of them.

BATH: So, Julian, are you a little bit disappointed about what sort of message this is sending to, say, your electorate about party unity, about the new tone promised by Sussan Ley when she became leader?

LEESER: Well, I think we haven't got it right. And I think if we had got it right, we'd be here today talking about things like the government's back down on aged care or their FOI laws or, you know, the Pacific Solution policy where they were sending people to the roof for four hundred million dollars, and it turned out it was 2 and a half billion dollars. That's what I wish we were talking about today. But the fact we're talking about this, unfortunately, means that we're that that we have a lot more work to do, and I want to be part of that that work. And part of the message I want to send strongly is that the Indian community plays a very important role in our country.

BATH: And just on the other matter that's been raised, Julian, do you think the Liberal Party still has a woman problem?

LEESER: Well, yes. We've got to get more women into the parliament and more women involved in our party, and Sussan has rightly made that a priority. And we're having discussions about how we can best do that, whether we should go down a quota system or whether we should have US style primaries or a whole range of measures, but we absolutely need to get more women into the federal parliament on our side.

BATH: And, Susan, from the outside looking in, do you think the Liberal Party has a woman problem, or is the way Alex Hawke spoke to whoever he spoke to in senator Price's office, you know, part and parcel of getting asked to tie the party line.

TEMPLEMAN: Yeah. Look. It's not about looking from the outside looking in. I sit in parliament and I look across, and I can see the very small number of women who are there. And I can only imagine how difficult it is to change the culture with such a small number of women representatives there. So, we took this very seriously back in the1990s. We put in quotas. We said, we do not represent Australia if we don't have a greater number of women representing our communities. So they you know, it's entirely up to the Liberals how and the Nationals how they do it, but they have a really long way to go, and the you take one glance at the parliament in in any time when we're all in the chamber, I guess, the start of question time, and you can see what their reality is.

BATH: Should gender come into this though? I mean, if Jacinta Price gets asked to toe the party line, she gets asked to toe the party line, doesn't she?

TEMPLEMAN: Well, I don't know how all of those conversations happened. I mean, I certainly know as a backbencher, I'm free to say the things that I feel about issues. But the other thing I think we have that operates so well is a really robust internal process where we can have a whole lot of discussions. They're not done necessarily in the public eye, but, you know, even things we talk about in caucus are briefed out to the media. So, I think the robustness of our processes gives us a really good way to deal with complex issues.

BATH: Margy, what's all they saying to you about Liberal Party room unity?

OSMOND: Well, look, firstly, I should apologise for having a bit of a giggle early on in this process, but for this reason

BATH: It’s kind of – here we are again, though. It's a bit like Groundhog Day.

OSMOND: Well, I suppose one of the bigger issues is that good government is made by good opposition. So, the opposition does need to get its act together because that's what the whole process of government is about. I think what's really unfortunate about this, and I have a huge amount of respect for Sussan Ley, and I think it's a massive job she's taken on and good on her. But where is what was promised immediately after the election, the review of policy? Because if everybody in the party is clear on what the policy looks like and what it is, it's a whole heap easier to get consensus in the party room.

BATH: Maybe net zero is a sticking point on that.

OSMOND: And I think that what you're really seeing here is a much bigger issue, which is about getting the party's policy agenda back online and getting consensus and agreement across the board. And I think, as I say, you know, government works at its best when it's got, you know, a terrific opposition, and that's what we really need to see happen. I mean, for those of us who spend quite a bit of time in Canberra, there's an awful lot of head shaking goes on when these sorts of things occur. And it's hugely unfortunate because it breeds a level of uncertainty then about what policy directions are going to be adopted by the alternative government. And it also says if we're going to go into elections in the not too far well, I mean, you know, the expected future. The Liberal Party and the Nats together have an awful lot of work to do, and they need to show everybody they're getting on with it as opposed to all these distractions that keep appearing in the media. And that's what I think people view them as, distractions.

BATH: Julian, I'm going to give you right of reply on this Is that in train?

LEESER: Yes. I was going to say, look, I think the first thing is we've demonstrated in the last week what an effective opposition we can be.

BATH: This is a sideshow, though.

LEESER: Our sustained questioning in question time demonstrate that on the aged care packages, where we got stories from our electorates in our communities across the country that showed people were literally dying waiting for their for their packages, forced the government's hand to fast track those packages into the hands of Australians, and that is a good thing.

BATH: I think, David Pocock has taken credit for that, hasn’t he?

LEESER: Well, it was it was our questions in the House of Representatives day after day.
Secondly, in relation to the policy work that we're doing now, we've set up a range of different policy processes to come up with the policies. Mean, the election was only in May this year.
We're taking the time to listen. We're taking the time to do things right, and that's exactly what you'd expect of a new opposition in a new term of parliament. And we'll come up with our policies and make sure that Australians know them well in advance of the next election.

BATH: You're listening to the Monday Political Forum with me, Julian Leeser, Margy, Osmond, Susan Templeman today. There's been a bit of a development on the right to hunt story that's making its way through New South Wales parliament. So back in May, the Shooters, Fishers, and Farmers Party, MLC Robert Borsak, introduced a bill into state parliament that could enshrine the right to hunt into law in New South Wales. The Environment Minister, Penny Sharpe, was asked about it by Hamish MacDonald earlier today on mornings. Here's Minister Sharpe.

MACDONALD (recording): Do you support this bill?

SHARPE (recording): We have said that there are elements of it that we're willing to look at, but we do not support any watering down of gun laws and any So

MACDONALD (recording): So, would in your mind enshrining a right to hunt do that?

SHARPE (recording): No. It doesn't. The issue here is about whether look. There's ongoing conversation about this, and we've got to see where it's up to. There's been a parliamentary inquiry. What's really important to know is that under no circumstances will the government support any watering down of our gun laws, and there's ongoing conversations about what the final form of what this bill looks like.

BATH: That's Minister Penny Sharpe. Now a couple of hours after that interview with Hamish, Premier Chris Minns was asked about the right to hunt at a media conference. Here's what the Premier had to say.

MINNS (recording): In relation to that provision, the right to hunt, which is in the bill, on reflection, I've had a look at it, and I think that that shouldn't be in the legislation. I mean, you're allowed to hunt in New South Wales, but whether you have a right to hunt, akin to a right to freedom of speech or a right to vote, I think they're vastly different things. I'm also concerned that it might evoke this idea that there's a right to bear arms like we've seen in The United States, and we can never go down that road.

BATH: That's the Premier, Chris Minns, ruling out the right to hunt in legislation earlier today.
Susan Templeman, is the Premier right to rule out a right to hunt?

TEMPLEMAN: Yeah. I think so. Absolutely. You know, at the federal level, we're working to tighten up gun control and do the next step, which is a national firearms register. And we got agreement for all of the states back in December 2023, and that is now progressing. So we want to see that next step happen that was you know, follows on from the Howard government laws, which obviously were supported right around the country. So, yeah, I think the Premier's spot on.

BATH: Margy, what are your feelings on this?

OSMOND: I think the Premier's absolutely on the money. You know? And I think he puts it in the right context. The right to hunt is not like the right to free speech or the right to a vote. And the fact that you are allowed to hunt in any number of circumstances in New South Wales and most of the country, in fact, on private land. What we're really talking about here is essentially national parks and crown land. And the government has to make a very considered choice in that space when so many other people use those parks as well. Just simply to manage this process is also going to be pretty expensive. You are actually going to have to set up an authority to manage the hunting process. I can only imagine the policing of it and the safety provisions are going to be really substantial. I think the Premier's absolutely on the money.

BATH: Julian Leeser, there's a beautiful national park in in your electorate. Is the Premier on the money here?

LEESER: Yes. I'm on a unity ticket with the Premier here. I don't like rights type provisions that are like a bill of rights. I've long been an opponent of a bill of rights. I edited a book about why Australia shouldn't have a bill of rights about fifteen years ago, And I think provisions that are expressed in vague language like that is just not the not the right way to go. We have, I think, some of the best gun laws in the world. I think it's a great source of pride for people on my side of politics that it was John Howard who took those very important steps after the Port Arthur massacre to tighten our gun laws, and I wouldn't support a loosening of those laws.

BATH: Yeah. And the former prime mister John Howard will bring his views to Hamish on mornings tomorrow. You'll be able to hear mister Howard then. Just before I let you go, we've been chatting a little today about who you spend more time with than your family. You're all very busy people. Susan Templeman, is it somebody or something you spend more time with than your family?

TEMPLEMAN: Well, that would be my staff. I've been a marginal seat campaigner for fifteen years, and my adult kids make appointments to see me sometimes because the schedules are pretty heavily booked.

BATH: How does that work, Susan? Is it a shared diary?

TEMPLEMAN: They go straight to my diary manager. But right now, I'm sitting outside a hospital that my mother's in. I've popped in to see her, then I raced out to do this and let her listen to it.So hi, mum.

BATH: Hi, mum. Thank you for sharing Susan with us. Oh, Susan, I hope I hope your mum's okay.
that.

TEMPLEMAN: Look. We've got a great health system that will get the best result possible.
But, you know, I'm just a typical backbencher who cares about their community, and, unfortunately, we do choose to let our families be the sacrificial lamb there, I think.

BATH: Susan, I do hope your mum gets well soon. If Susan's mum's listening, I'd I hope you are hale and hearty very soon. Julian, is it somebody or something you spend more time with than your family?

LEESER: Well, just before I say it, let me also add good wishes to Susan's mum. I've met members of Susan's family. She's got a lovely family, and I hope that mum makes a good recovery. Look. Yes. Like Susan, it's my staff and my constituents. My wife often remarks about this another weekend where I'm out and about in the in the electorate. That's just the nature of being an assiduous member of parliament. You do you do devote time to your constituents as you should in this job. They have to come first. And so, it's my constituents and my staff who I probably see more of than I do my own family.

BATH: Margy, how about you?

OSMOND: Oh, well, look. When I first looked at this question, I thought, oh, it's the dogs. I spend more time with my dogs. And then I thought, well, they're members of the family, so that doesn't count. So, I think I'm going to have to once again go, oh my goodness. The unity ticket. It is the people I work with and my members. So, my members in that much wider tourism industry, I spend an awful lot of time with them, and it is a joy, of course.

BATH: Well, it's been a joy to have you spend time with us in the studio. Julian Leeser, thank you very much for joining us.

LEESER: Thanks, Chris.

BATH: The Member for Berowra, Julian Leeser. There's Susan Templeman. Fingers crossed for your mum from everybody listening here at 702. Thank you. Susan Templeman there, the Federal Member for Macquarie.

BATH: And Margy Osmond, CEO of the Tourism and Transport Forum Australia. Lovely to have your smiling face in the studio.

ENDS.